and then you see education in green is just a small chunk of what we spend money on. and the defense is a large chunk as well. i have to ask you, senator durbin, because you have said, even in a grand bargain, that we shouldn't be tackling entitlements. how you can be serious about deficit reduction if you're not willing to take on medicare? >> norah, i tackled them with simpson-bowles. we need to taxle them again. what i said in the last few hours of the fiscal cliff don't make program policy changes in medicare that you're going to live with decades reflect on this. yesterday 10,000 americans reached the age of 65, today another 10,000, tomorrow another 10,000, and every day for the next 18 years. these people have pied in to fair lifetime into an insurance program called social security and medicare and they are expecting the benefits they paid for. we have to resolve, as tom said, how are we going to come to grips with the growing health care costs in medicare and medicaid and still keep our promise to these people? so, yes, we need entitlement reform. let's do it